Sarah Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 congrats to all the new mods cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 April fools in december? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 It kind of looks that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckmeister Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I'm not the jealous type, Andy. I've got a small board that is focused on Perthys, it will always be small, I know that Does having my own board mean that I cant participate here and view my own points. considering I was HERE long before my board. What my general gist was that the forums seems to have slowed down considerably compared to the hay days when you could come back 3 hours later and it looked like you were gone for a day and alot of the advice given was from experienced well respected Mods and hobbiests (not to say the new mods aren't). Obviously you were under staffed and I'm wishing you guys the best with the extra Mods you now have in tow I'm certainly not having a go at the board or management Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleggy Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 welcome guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cichlids_au Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Does having my own board mean that I cant participate here and view my own points. considering I was HERE long before my board. Your always welcome here chuck What my general gist was that the forums seems to have slowed down considerably compared to the hay days when you could come back 3 hours later and it looked like you were gone for a day I find it rather cyclic to be honest. There are peaks and lulls all the time and they vary in duration. and alot of the advice given was from experienced well respected Mods and hobbyists (not to say the new mods aren't). I just think your getting to old my friend I do agree with you a bit there, some of the past crew were the best there was in the country in certain fields. But having said that I have noticed a lot of the whippersnappers are just as good and are a long way from being old and broken down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I remember when Icy poles were 15c I remember when they were 5c each or 3c for half of one from the tuck shop Thanks for the kind comments ...I shall do my best to continue to dispense reliable and informed information and help keep the forums running smoothly merjo PS> where ya been Sarah..haven't seen you around for ages?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 No chuck I knew what you meant (hence my comments), but as I said, it is hard to determine feeling in written word sometimes. You are always welcome here As mark said, there are some young members here that have chimed in at the right time - when the industry is changing. These young folk are pretty spot on with some of the new equipment and fishkeeping skills going on. Us "old timers" (christ I never thought I'd say I was an old timer at 30 ) who grew up with or were taught by the likes of Anita and ChrisD still try to hold onto the values of 10 years ago when fishkeeping was simple and there was only one type of frontosa or brichardi here Don't write off the teenagers just yet. In another 5 years they will be the best people to know in this hobby most likely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 I've had a couple of people ask me if some of the new moderators are experienced or mature enough to do this job, and there have been a few sarcastic remarks in this thread along the same lines. I wont argue about this, the questions and sarcasm are coming from people who most probably ARE more experienced and mature than some of our new mods. However..... The same mature and experienced people did not bother to apply for the job, yet they want to whinge about those who are prepared to give up their time for this wonderful hobby. Sometimes it's best not to bag those who are prepared to do more than you are. I'd suggest you all give these new mods a fair go to prove themselves, because they are all keen and all prepared to give it their best shot. Let's not forget that all the senior mods and admins were new starters at one stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquaman Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 When I was a boy.... I remember when I could by 40 firecrackers at the local milk bar for 40cents. If they sold them now they'd have the police all over them. How I never blew my arm off I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E4G13M4N Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I remember those days well Aquaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 While we're reminiscing BaZ, maybe those mature and knowledgeable people think the good old fashioned way of "the promotion" being bestowed upon the most fitting members without the need for formal applications was and is still the best way to staff a forum. If it aint broke... I used to get 40c sunny boys when I was really lucky in primary school, they were the shnizzle. Sometimes I even treated myself to a bag of the 1c carob buds. But the best was high school, 5c red frogs, and buying $10 worth. Not because you wanted them particularly, but to irritate people. Even funnier when your mates all lined up behind you and had some poor volunteer canteen mum counting red frogs all of lunch time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Morelia Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Even better when your mum was a volunteer canteen mum.... I remember those damned firecrackers.... my siblings were having fun with them one time (when i was much younger) and they got me to hold one and they didnt tell me to throw it it was accidental (i think ) but i escaped serious injury Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 One of my mates blew half his skin of his hand once. The thing didn't burn as long as it should have... We blew up the rest of the pack while he was in surgery I can't believe I am alive thinking now of some of the things I got up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cichlids_au Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 While we're reminiscing BaZ, maybe those mature and knowledgeable people think the good old fashioned way of "the promotion" being bestowed upon the most fitting members without the need for formal applications was and is still the best way to staff a forum. If it aint broke... Ducksta If you have some people in mind could you send me their names please. I will approach them to see if they would like to be appointed as Forum Veterans which is a title we created to allow members to identify people with exceptional skills and to take notice of. This forum has been around longer than most of the Vets can keep up with. It truly takes exceptional people to continue in roles for as long as these forums have been running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Well Mark, I think I am the obvious first choice in that regard I will PM you a list later, although you might not like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cichlids_au Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Chuckmeister and Ducksta have provided an insight to the concerns that may be shared by a number of the long-term members of the forums. Both of these members are long established here and contribute both in the forums and behind the scenes. I have received a PM from another member who is also a long-term user of the forums. I have asked that I be able to share his PM and my response with the entire membership. I do this so that I may be able to inform you all as to the thoughts and motivators behind the Advertising of the positions and the reasons we have chosen the people that have made the cut. Hi all (I will be PMing a few of you so this is generic) I would just like to voice my disgust (note privately, and not publicly but it is VERY tempting) at some of the new recruits being appointed to these positions. I am not going to name name's but I am sure you guys can work out who my main point of contention is. I have been with the 'ACE' since before the SCP forums moved onto ezboard, and despite a few butted heads, I think I have continually been an 'active and valuable member', Mark and other senior staff have said as much to me also. I know some people harbour a few grudges due to people I choose to continue my association with, and thats fine, I think I manage to play both sides safely and keep everybody happy ( at least 99% of the time). However, I am finding myself increasingly asking myself if I REALLY want to continue to play the ACE side at all. I have made my views on moderator positions clear enough for as long as I've been on any forum, and I thought the admin staff on ACE shared those views. Essentially, I am struggling to get what I am thinking into a singular clear and coherant thought stream because my mind is going a mile a minute, so my message might seem jumbled and random, and it is... Lucky for you I am edited out all the expletives in my head OK maybe a clear point here. IMHO, a moderator needs to be someone who is senior and knowledgeable. I know this hobby is ever changing and even the most hardened old school cichlidophiles will always be able to learn something new from some punk kid with a tank under his bunk bed, but I think you still need to have people whose advice and opinions can be trusted 100% without need to double check in the lead roles. I honestly see this as a sad sad day for this forum (which is more than a forum, its a real life community) I would go as far as to say this is a spear in the heart of ACE. Just wanted my feelings to be known. Thanks for your time Hi Well you have obviously spent some time putting your thoughts and feelings into words so I’ll spend some time replying. Firstly I thank you for not posting your dissent in the forums. Next I apologise for not going to view the post you have linked to; I see no point especially when your feelings are quite obvious in this PM. Your relationship with Lungy and his forum are no business of mine and you are right to say you keep things separate between the two forums, I’m sure you get something from both. As I have said previously you have contributed, on the whole, a lot to ACE and all it’s predecessors and that is all there is to say on that subject. You know my views on this. Your views are yours and you express them as you see fit and while they have been challenging at times I believe that they are good to keep people on their toes and you have managed to keep it helpful and constructive. However I do not entirely agree with them. No one can be expected to live up to a standard that is set to high and the only way anyone can gain the ability to receive the respect of others is to try their best. This will often cause problems along the way but that is part of the growing and maturing process. You feel that Mods and Admins to perform their role, need to be very proficient at the job of advising people about fish related topics so that the members of a forum can learn from them. And that they be knowledgeable enough to give all the advice to other members as is needed to save them from their own ignorance. I’m sure there are others that hold a similar view. I however feel that it is more important for Mods and Admins to be prudent and moderate in the way they deal with other members. I also believe that it is their role to keep the ship running as best they can with the knowledge that they posses. Whether it is proficient or that of a relative novice. I also strongly believe that if you don’t give the novice or intermediate person a chance to shine or at least learn, we will never have people of the caliber that the likes of Chris Davis are. This is something I believe in and I practice in my personal and business life. It is incumbent on people like you and I to give these people a chance and to guide them along the way to gain the experience and knowledge that will help them become both better people and more expert at whet they choose to apply themselves to. You say that a Moderator should be “senior and knowledgeable” but the problem is that we have burnt out Chris and Sorro along with other very respected and proficient people. Even Anita has not done any moderating since September. I have also burnt out and Andy, BaZ and Dave has also. Some of us have been so exhausted that just a few weeks break is just not enough anymore and as a consequence they have needed to sever their ties as “Staff” on a more permanent basis. With this kind of attrition we need to bring forward new blood to fill the void. I again make my point about giving people the chance to learn and experience the things that promote the gathering of the knowledge and life experience that will make them proficient at what they do. I also believe that everyone at some time or another just plain old buggers it up but they also all need the chance to redeem themselves. I’m sure you realise that as one of the three people that run the site and the person that is perceived as the owner, I will take a lot of the flack for the errors these new Mods will make and that will reflect on me personally. I will also again be in a position where I will spend ore time coaching these people than I will enjoy the forums for myself. I take this task on so that eventually I will be in a position to have the time away from the Moderating and Administrating of the site to enjoy the fellowship that it offers. You say that the forum is more than just a forum and that it is a real community. I agree 100% with your sentiments there and I also believe that it is not the job of the Mods to be the all encompassing gurus that answers the needs of those less competent than others. I believe that that is the role of the entire community to do that and the Mods job is to do just what their title alludes to, to Moderate. What I can promise you is that I will do my very best to help these people to learn to do the jobs we have appointed them to. To be fair in the way I deal with issues that arise from their lack of experience and to Moderate their actions and comments as best I can to ensure that everyone gets a fair deal in the resolution of such matters. What I plead of you is that you continue to assist the members with their problems and to give the new team members a go while they attain the knowledge and experience through the learning experience they have chosen to take on. Your PM is the first I have received in relation to concerns about the selections that we have made, but I am aware of several others that have communicated similar concerns to both Andy and BaZ. Andy and BaZ have rightly pointed out that the expressions of interest were made to the entire community. It is these people (and some that did not make the cut) that have, for their own personal reasons, decided to put themselves into the firing line and take the task on. I can assure you that this is, in the main, a thankless task that is time consuming and at times heart breaking. I have been personally attacked on numerous occasions for many reasons including profiteering. I have been at this for many years, as I have been with the committee work I have done over the last 6 years for the Cichlid Society. Both positions are ones that can only be held with the support of the members, they are time consuming, thankless in the main and without any profit other than personal gratification I get from the knowledge that I do my best and that most people on the whole appreciate that. So to sum up. I believe that you have the good of the forum community at heart when you take the time to send me a message like this. I appreciate your viewpoint but I also hope that you can understand and tolerate mine. I stand behind the appointments that have been made and take responsibility for them. I ask only that you continue to support ACE and in your own unique way assist to guide the team in it’s endeavor to keep ACE a place where everyone can benefit. I think that you have raised an issue that, through your concerns and my reply, would benefit the general membership as a whole. Would you mind if I were to place this as a post for all to see. I think it would be helpful for them to see the reasons behind why we do what we do. Obviously I will remove anything that would identify you to the general membership and more so the new recruits. Kindest regards Mark Mark, you have gone to such lengths to give me a genuine and well written reply, I would hate to see it wasted and used only once. Absolutely use it as a post. I don't mind if you name me as the originator of the discussion, as any flack I cop will roll right off. However, I think you may be right in that it would be best for some of the 'recruits' to not know it was me... For my own safety... 3 of them know where I live Anyway, maybe it never quite got out in the first PM, my main concern is that when/if one of these moderators posts, perhaps without the necessary knowledge, and somebody very knowledgable comes along and conflicts that, the newb, or even not a newb, but someone who is in a strange new position, is likely to trust in a title rather than someones unspoken years of knowledge building. I hope it is apparent that I think all the recruits are genuinely good people though. Regards I hope you all can help out these new recruits to make their experience as positive as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burek Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 ITs better to choose young ones as mods, because: 1. they are the future of this forum 2. they need to learn while there young so they can be Experienced. 3. Older Mods have to pass down there experience to young ones so young ones get to learn how to be a good Mod! IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Hi all, This is a little disappointing to see. I hope that everyone is given a fair chance to show their capabilities from fulfiling the moderator role. IMHO, a moderator needs to be someone who is senior and knowledgeable. I am 40, kept cichlids for more than 20 years, have over 60 tanks, regularly dispense good advice (IMO), write articles and until recently, was a regular contributor to chat sessions. My (often full) pm box and steady stream of emails attests to the amount of questions that are posed to me from forum members. I assume that either you didn't know that or you are referring to some other appointee/appointees. With that said, I am looking forward to my time here as moderator, I hope that the younger, less experienced people are given a fair chance too. My computer literacy skills are woeful, so on that front, I am a novice and will be seeking help myself. merjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 While we're reminiscing BaZ, maybe those mature and knowledgeable people think the good old fashioned way of "the promotion" being bestowed upon the most fitting members without the need for formal applications was and is still the best way to staff a forum. Now Ducky I cannot believe I went to all that trouble to reply to these exact same concerns on Drumpak yet you have not read my reply?? The most fitting members are not necessarily those with the most fish knowledge, otherwise I might as well step down from my position right now. The most fitting members are often those who are prepared to spend the time to do all the modding duties which keep this forum running. Let's not think of this forum as a school, where those in charge have all the answers. The people in charge here are merely making a discussion forum available, where people from all backgrounds and at all levels are able to discuss cichlids. Sure, it's good to have some brains amongsts the mods and admins, and we do. But it's also good to have a mix of skills. There's no point having a bunch of mods and admins who are able to answer any fish question asked, yet find themselves too busy elsewhere to maintain the forum. We didnt view the application process as formal at all, more a gathering of expressions of interest. We needed to be sure we were offering the jobs to those who were most fitting, ie, willing to do the job. Now let's stop discussing the new mods and get back to discussing the things we are really here to discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Now let's stop discussing the new mods and get back to discussing the things we are really here to discuss Yeah, the price of icy poles and lollies when you were a kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Hi All - As the past owner/administrator of this forum I think I should comment on a few things in this thread. 1. I don't think the forum is any slower/quiter. Period. Have a look at the number of posts today 169 (as of now 15:44). In the "old" days we had only one "general" forum - this was EXTREMELY busy and things fell off the page before you could say "Pseudotropheus elongatus Likoma Island"... to combat this (ie: the "some posts getting lost in the rush" issue) - we added new forums (ie: Technical, Photo, Catfish etc.) all the posts in these forii used to appear in general. Thus the speed. Most days this forum seems to get round 200 posts - that's unchanged from many years past (Mark, Glenn or Andy can furnish us with the exact stats I'm sure if we ask nicely). 2. I dont really think it matters how the mods are appointed. When I was in charge I always chose people I knew put in a lot of effort on the forum.. however, I dont see a problem with the current by application method. If you're a long term member whose got some time - why wait to be asked? Why not apply along with others? You're more likely to get the job! 3. I resent/object the 'complain about others without a fair go' attitude of some here - these folk have put there hand up to have a go - and I applaud them . In saying this I'll confess I was almost never comfortable with a new mod (as you dont know how they are going to go in the role) but it is something you have to try before you can judge. In my time we tried some folk who didnt work out (for a variety of reasons - but they deserve thanks just for trying). As one of those no longer involved with admin/modding here I can attest to the fact that it is mentally draining and a serious committment. It comes with stress (as you only deal generally with problem members) and it reduces (in my opinion) you're own participation (and enjoyment) in general forum discussions (and how much you can say). As a final aside its worth reminding everyone what it costs to use this forum. Membership is free and in my opinion the best thing you can do for your cichlid hobby. ACE is, in my highly biased opinion, the best cichlid forum (and the largest cichlid organisation (sorry NSWCS)) in Oz.... and it is made so by 1: the large, mixed and quality membership from all over Australia (and overseas) and 2: the high quality administration of the site. You, the reader, can help the cichlid hobby by supporting the ACE forums - now and into the future. (You can also support the SCP (Australia's oldest cichlid website) if you feel the need by donating your photos for use in the Galleria or your articles for other hobbyists!! (excuse the plug ). Lastly, I'm still here ... I've no plans to abandon the forum as a member ! But perhaps I'm not one of the "mature and knowledgeable people" chuck was speaking of LOL! Cheers - Dave aka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Wombat Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Fresh blood and fresh ideas in the mod arena can only be good for this forum. Hopefully the new guys com up with some great ideas to enhance the experience for the whole ACE community. Plus im sure that the senior admins will keep a close eye on the new guys to make sure that no abuse of power occurs. Welcome new mods i look forward to working with you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 This is a fabulous forum, I sincerely value the support and advice that I received for FREE over the years. I know personally that I would never find the time for such a job as moderating the forums and am very grateful that there are people out there that manage to watch over their own lives as well as the lovely little (aka big) community that has been built here over the years. It annoys me that people are happy to use this forum (once again FREE of charge) and then can turn around and complain about the selection of people to assist to control this forum in their own time. I believe that we should all be very grateful for this forum and the vaulable resource that it is and be even more grateful for the people that give up their time and energy to keep our community running smoothly! Three cheers for the new mod team, best of luck and thank you for you time Regards Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I might just add quickly that the new mods have done a top job so far. I was expecting a couple to have an itchy trigger finger, but any mod work that has been done has been spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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