Timah Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I want to know if Fish are effected by imbreeding. If they are what are some signs that the fish are imbred if buying from a shop and can you introduce new blood line to an imbred fish and faze out the imbred genes? Thanks Regards Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 In bred fish can either be good or bad, depends what you are looking for. Certain traits can be enhanced by inbreeding. Generally though, most fish in the aquarium trade will have some parentage having been inbred. Introducing new fish helps, unless the gene that the inbreeds produced is now more dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ_Archer Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 normaly a imbred fish has red spots behind there gills and r less colorful....i hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfishbreeder Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 that is not tru like wui said inbreed fish can be good or bad take line breeding for example this can be used to bring out a more desirable trait but in saying that in my opion it is always better to try and add fresh blood trent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 hey, RJ what species of fish show red dots behind the gills when they iNbreed? The main places to look if your worried about fish being inbreeding is around the mouth and spine. With some species youll find that most of the fish in the country are related to one colony of parents. Take EY's for example, when they first came onto the scene every single fish was related to a single pair that Stuart Grant shipped out of Malawi to Stig Jansson, Pierre Brichard then took the pair and produced about a 1,000 off spring before he put them on the market. There is still a good chance that alot of the worlds yellows relate back to this single pair. It happens with alot of species really, Peacocks are usually only brought into Aus with a couple of colonys and within a few years the fish are accessable all over australia. Inbreeding is a problem we face constiantly here because we just dont get enough new blood into the country especially with mbuna, alot are smuggled in and so usually only in small numbers so over a number of years the quality can tend to reduce. My only advice to you would be to hunt out a reputable breeder who has done all the worrying about inbreeding already so that you dont have too. If your looking for a fish which is really rare or nearly lost to the hobby you might have to accept that you cannont get new blood into your colony/pair and be very picky about culling fry, this should really only be done where new fish cant be added to the colony. Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 It really does depend on the species though, not all fish do need to have "new blood" added to give the desired colour, take the Betta splendens for example; the breeders of these fish strive on mixing straints to help them achieve a "new" strain of fish. hth Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTR73 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I agree with Phatoscarlover in that best to find a good breeder who takes the care with their product. Inbreeding is basically unchecked breeding in a tank where mums, dads and kids all breed together, normally producing unwanted results such as their colours fading, defects etc. From what I've seen with fish that have been continually inbred, colour being "washed out" is the most common result. I've seen this with P.saulosi. The ones I have are from a good breeder and have good parentage i.e. not long outta Africa. I keep the colony seperate from the offspring and the results are good - the stripes the males have are straight, match on both sides and are black, while the blue is actually an irridecent blue. Females I have are bright yellow/orange. P.saulosi that my mate has are kept in a tank unchecked and breed like rabbits - the offspring are never removed from the tank. The result is his Saulosi offspring are bland with males having dark grey uneven stripes and blue/grey overall colour, while females are a cream colour. And this is what ends up in the shops sometimes. Think of it like the Royal Family - inbred for years and years and the product is wingnut Prince Charles who is bland and washed out. Seriously though, you probably could improve your stock with introduction of a good quality male or female. This then starts to fall into the area of "linebreeding" which is a different kettle of fish (er, excuse the pun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardb0iled Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 It really does depend on the species though, not all fish do need to have "new blood" added to give the desired colour, take the Betta splendens for example; the breeders of these fish strive on mixing straints to help them achieve a "new" strain of fish. hth Richard ← Yes but this also results in a LOT of 'undesirable' outcomes which are generally culled. I dont agree with genetic manipulation of animals in this way, but its pretty common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timah Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 But if I'm buying from a proper store like St. George then they would not of bought the fish would they? i can see pets paradise or a general pet store doing it but not a specialized store... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmuncan Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 /cue banjo music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Some of the signs of inbreeding are not visible on individual fish. Decreased hatchability, decreased fertility, increased disease susceptibility and decreased survival rates may be signs of inbreeding and loss of genetic diversity. Then you have an observable sign like the increase in deformities that Andy mentioned i.e. bent spines, crooked mouths. The use of an outcross (new blood) is important in maintaining the genetic diveristy in your breeding colonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ_Archer Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 it was the yellows that i found had the red spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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