Monster tank/Tank background

[Ash]

i wonder if the tank has CO2 or not? or what fertiliser is being used?

whats the filtration on the tank wayne?

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I too would like to see some more details along these lines too. For example, it is my understanding that a planted tank dosn't want air stones going in there because it blows off CO2 (wether injected or supplied by fish). A tank with this plant selection will have to have CO2 injection for it's success, so perhaps (?) stacks more CO2 could be put in there to make up for the extra being lost due to the air stones.

What glass thickness is it?

Good luck with the pruning - God - what a job that'll be!

Craig

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I'll 3rd the filtration question.

Perhaps the air stones are CO2 stones?

[waruna]

Don't know if any of you have seen this tank, any way this is Takashi Amano working on his tank, Nuf said

http://www.oscarfish.com/takashi-amano-at-...cs-vt46172.html

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I have been a fan of takashi since i first found his books about ten years ago great to see that shot again

Cheers

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Hi Aline, well I have been spoiled for the last few years, i get a subscription to the TFH magazine (B’day Present) and Takashi Amano has his own planted section. His work is unbelievable.

i wonder if the tank has CO2 or not? or what fertiliser is being used?

whats the filtration on the tank wayne?

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I too would like to see some more details along these lines too. For example, it is my understanding that a planted tank dosn't want air stones going in there because it blows off CO2 (wether injected or supplied by fish). A tank with this plant selection will have to have CO2 injection for it's success, so perhaps (?) stacks more CO2 could be put in there to make up for the extra being lost due to the air stones.

What glass thickness is it?

Good luck with the pruning - God - what a job that'll be!

Craig

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I'll 3rd the filtration question.

Perhaps the air stones are CO2 stones?

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Hi Ash, No way those air stones are CO2 stones, first it would be a waste to release CO2 with an air stone, and second you will go through a bottle in days. My planted tank was a 6*2*2 and I released a bubble of CO2 every 2 seconds. I drilled a hole in the filter intake pipe and connected the tubing (CO2) so the CO2 is pretty much dissolved when it is released in to the tank.

I would also like to no more about CO2 and filtration .

[Wayne]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the compliments, we too are very proud of this tank!

Here is how it is running.

The tank is made from 19mm glass, on a huge thick steel frame 1200mm off the floor, with 60mm thick glass rodding to reinforce. Let me tell you it was a hard job getting the glass up there, I had 10 guys per panel! It has 2 weirs in the back corners.

The sump is a 72x20x20 matrix filter with a 25000lph pump in it.

It has a UV sterilizer, no CO2, and a huge airpump. 4 Metal halide lights above. There are 4 or so powerheads inside for movement.

We go there weekly to clean of a small amount of algae from the lights on the from panel, as the lights are on 12 hours a day. We do a monthly water change, and gravel clean. The tank has an automatic fertilizer dispenser for the plants. Every couple of months we add new plants at Clubs request. Other than that it runs itself! The tank has 200 neons in it and 275 other small community fish. It has a range of discus, about 30 or so in there. We have never had any kind of problem with the tank, it runs well.

Its good to watch when they go, the boys get in the tank and swim! Lol very funny at times! If any one wants to know anything else, please let me know!

Cheers,

Rebecca

[CThompson]

The tanks sounds strong and well made – congratulations on that – others thinking of getting a tank of this size should take note of the concerns for strength that Wayne has gone to and remember him when you do your tank. He made my 6’ by 2’ by 2’.7”, with sliding lids (done to my instructions) to perfection.

I’d be VERY surprised if the tank runs with ALL plants growing properly (i.e. red plants red) without CO2. Liebig Theory on plant growth states that “plant growth is determined by the one factor present at a minimum”, and CO2 has to be in VERY short supply with that number of plants, and with the large number of plants with high requirements. Without it the plants will be restricted at the access they have to all other nutrients required for their growth and well being. When I had my plant tank running I lived by this theory, and it really holds water (I think there may be a pun in that I'm not sure )

There is no way I would have air stones in there.

How long has this tank been running?

It is also my understanding that a gravel clean in a full on Planted tank is not needed (where plants are the prime focus), as the plants will use the waste as a fertiliser. Doing a gravel clean in fact can damage roots. In a commercial professional situation where a pile of fish waste (not that it ever really builds up) may be considered unsightly, it may need to be removed for this reason, but for the health of the tank it is not necessary, and may be detrimental.

I had to get into my big tank last weekend, and I tell you what, it gives a different perspective to watching your fish, so I can well understand the difficulties involved when you’ve got to get into this tank. My kids stood there killing themselves with laughter.

When you clean your glass, what I do with my big tank is put a credit card (old) into a cut slot into a length of plastic pipe. If you have it on the correct angle, it does a marvellous job of removing algae, and may be a viable alternative to how ever (magnets?) you are cleaning the glass now, with no risk of scratching (getting a rock caught in between magnet and glass for example).

25,000 lph pump! Now that’s moving some water. How many returns does this have back into the tank? What is the wattage?

Also what is the wattage on the MH lights?

Craig

[Wayne]

The tank has been running for around a year. The clients requested airstones, and there are no red plants. The plants grow fine, infact I had giant ambulia get to the top of the tank in no time. I am forever trimming! All plants are sprouting new leaves all the time, and new little ones are growing everywhere.

When I say gravel clean, it is just a spot around where there are no plants, and we use a massive magnet to clean the front panel. The water stays crystal clear, everything gets tested weekly, never any problems. Fish loss is very minimal, only a neon or small thing like that occasionally dies, sometimes get down in the sump.

There are 2 returns into the tank. The pump is around 300w, and the lights are 150w.

With the plants, we had originally planned to place a CO2 unit on it, but while having talks with the CEO, he asked that instead of having it, he would rather replace the plants every couple of months, so thats what we do.

This tank really does run well, and looks fresh and new all the time.

[CThompson]

he asked that instead of having it, he would rather replace the plants every couple of months, so thats what we do.

Can't argue with that - and good for you too!

What was the rational behind not wanting CO2?

I’ve not tried it myself, but I understand that if you keep the tanks KH up to 40-60ppm, plants can access their carbonate requirements from here instead of CO2.

How about a few more shots, tank, sump etc.?

[10050460]

if you think of it, in the natural environment, there are water movements all the time and plants still grow as long as there are nutrients and sunlight. so i guess you dont need CO2 if the environment is right. you can think of these huge tanks as a mini nature.

[CThompson]

CO2 is a nutrient or if you like a requirement of a plant for growth/life. Without it, or a substitute gaining the carbonate it needs from another source, in the “natural environment” that means aquatic plants don’t exist.

From what I have read/remember, it is ion that is often deficient in nature, and conversely where it is abundant, plants grow in profusion.

Land plants as most people know, photosynthesise in daylight hours, which means they consume CO2 and respire O2. At night this cycle changes to respiration just like us – they breathe O2 and put out CO2. Aquatic plants have these same requirements, and will get by without the requirement of CO2 as well as you and I would get by without O2 (how long can you hold your breath?).

A tank of the size that is shown here is still a drop of water compared to what nature provides. Though I must say for me, tanks of this size (particularly height) have a massive eyeball impact!

Wayne – you said that the pump moved 25,000 lph and was 300 watts – is that correct? If so WOW.

Is the pump also quite?

Could you please let me know the brand?

What is the inlet/outlet plumbing size?

What sort of reputation/reliability does this pump have?

Craig

[davez104]

Land plants as most people know, photosynthesise in daylight hours, which means they consume CO2 and respire O2. At night this cycle changes to respiration just like us – they breathe O2 and put out CO2.

Not sure that is totally correct. The way I understood it was that plants respire at all times, consuming oxygen and releasing carbon dioxide. During the daylight hours the process of photosynthesis produces more oxygen than the plant is consuming, resulting in a net 'output' of oxygen. Not sure if this is relevant or os even the same for aquatic plants, but one would assume they are the same.

Dave.

[dyclops]

I Craig. In an aquatic environment everything needs, typically CO2. It's the main souce of C fixing in low nutrient envionments (Coarl Reefs) and as we know carbon is in everthing - AA's, sugars, lipids... Additionally Ammonia is required heavily for AA's.

We can veiw our tanks as a massive symbiont environment. If you think about the food web in our tanks, it's quite amazing.

Edit: If anyone in interested in reading up on this I suggest these 6 lectures by Sophie Dove. They are more aimed at a marine environment but you can think freshwater if you want:

http://ilc00m.facbacs.uq.edu.au/2006/RC/FM...ARS2014.1&-find

Lectures: 27-31

Login bacs/pass darwin

Mitch

[CThompson]

Dave and Mitch, thankyou for your comments, not sure I fully understand your comments Mitch, you seem to be agreeing with me in regards to the requirements of CO2, which was the point I was making to 10050460. If this is correct, then I understand, if it is not...

Dave, I have not heard before what you mention. The way I understood it was that it was a swap, though what you say I wouldn’t be surprised at, and sounds very possible. Thanks for taking the time to explain it, I’ll check it out from other sources as well.

Craig

[Camo]

Hey

Very nice and big tank indeed. Would of looked nicer with just the background and a few rocks and natural things and turn it into a tang display tank IMO. None the less amazing wayne.

Cheers

Cameron

[Inphatu8]

Used to be a memeber there when I lived there, will Def go back real soon to have a look. Looks just fab!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Daniel]

CT, it is not unusual for very large planted tanks to do well without CO2. The greater surface area of very large tanks seems to hold more CO2 and the plants often do well without CO2 fertilization. However, I am rather surprised with the airstones in this tank and the fact that the plants are still doing well. Seems to defy logic, however there must be some explanation for it. I am curious of what metal halides are being used. Are they 4 x 150w's or 4 x 250w's ?

[10050460]

aquatic plants can still survive and thrive,depending on the situation without the iINJECTION of CO2. whether you put alot of surface movements and airstones is maybe another thing. I have 2ft and 4ft tanks that have never seen infection of CO2 before yet the amazon plants,vals,hair grass all thrived with just tablets fertilisation. I havent actually gone to the length of doing a documentation of parameters and all those fancy stuff but i do know it works without CO2. with very good lighting is a major factor in the plants thriving aswell. i guess maybe the CO2 was sufficient in the environment that i had without adding CO2.

[CThompson]

CT, it is not unusual for very large planted tanks to do well without CO2.  The greater surface area of very large tanks seems to hold more CO2 and the plants often do well without CO2 fertilization.  However, I am rather surprised with the airstones in this tank and the fact that the plants are still doing well.  Seems to defy logic, however there must be some explanation for it.  I am curious of what metal halides are being used.  Are they 4 x 150w's or 4 x 250w's ?

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Thanks for your comments Daniel.

Seems to defy logic, however there must be some explanation for it. 

The answer to this is Waynes comment;

With the plants, we had originally planned to place a CO2 unit on it, but while having talks with the CEO, he asked that instead of having it, he would rather replace the plants every couple of months, so thats what we do.

What I still am waiting to hear is what this pump is that moves 25,000 lph and only runs on 300 watts?

Craig

[Wayne]

CT,

The pump is 25000lph and runs on 520w. I looked up the wrong pump before, sorry .

It has little noise, just like a humming sound.

The brand is Aqua Nova

Cheers

[CThompson]

CT,

The pump is 25000lph and runs on 520w. I looked up the wrong pump before, sorry .

It has little noise, just like a humming sound.

The brand is Aqua Nova

Cheers

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I thought the 300 watts was not correct. Damn, I’d hoped I was wrong. Thanks for getting back to me on it.

Craig

[CThompson]

Land plants as most people know, photosynthesise in daylight hours, which means they consume CO2 and respire O2. At night this cycle changes to respiration just like us – they breathe O2 and put out CO2.

Not sure that is totally correct. The way I understood it was that plants respire at all times, consuming oxygen and releasing carbon dioxide. During the daylight hours the process of photosynthesis produces more oxygen than the plant is consuming, resulting in a net 'output' of oxygen. Not sure if this is relevant or os even the same for aquatic plants, but one would assume they are the same.

Dave.

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Dave,

I have confirmed that plants are respiring all the time, but in day light hours they also photosynthesises which creates a overall greater production of O2, than CO2.

I have always thought it was a straight swap, never read anywhere anything otherwise.

Greatly appreciate you informing me of my error.

Craig

[Cuong]

I Craig. In an aquatic environment everything needs, typically CO2. It's the main souce of C fixing in low nutrient envionments (Coarl Reefs) and as we know carbon is in everthing - AA's, sugars, lipids... Additionally Ammonia is required heavily for AA's.

We can veiw our tanks as a massive symbiont environment. If you think about the food web in our tanks, it's quite amazing.

Edit: If anyone in interested in reading up on this I suggest these 6 lectures by Sophie Dove. They are more aimed at a marine environment but you can think freshwater if you want:

http://ilc00m.facbacs.uq.edu.au/2006/RC/FM...ARS2014.1&-find

Lectures: 27-31

Login bacs/pass darwin

Mitch

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Haha! You've just let out UQ BACS uber 'secret' password

In regards to the air bubbles and CO2 content, the air bubbles don't directly add that much O2 into the water. As you probably know it's the surface agitation at the air:water interface that's important for O2 and CO2 levels in the tank. The plants may use up CO2 in the tank, but there's always going to be a constant, albeit small and stable supply from the air.

[CThompson]

Haha! You've just let out UQ BACS uber 'secret' password 

In regards to the air bubbles and CO2 content, the air bubbles don't directly add that much O2 into the water.  As you probably know it's the surface agitation at the air:water interface that's important for O2 and CO2 levels in the tank.  The plants may use up CO2 in the tank, but there's always going to be a constant, albeit small and stable supply from the air.

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It is my understanding that O2 and CO2 can happily live side by side, that is, they are not mutually exclusive. My understanding is that air bubbles increase the oxygen content of the tank due to each bubble having a surface area, and with the constant bubble production, multiplied by millions of bubbles, you are effectively increasing the tank’s foot print, and hence the availability for O2 to get into the water.

Air bubbles themselves do not directly affect the CO2, but what they do is cause a vertical current that brings the CO2 into contact with the water's surface, where they are much easer (than O2) able to go out of …solution, and escape the tank into the atmosphere.

Craig

[Ash]

If there was more CO2 in the air than in the water, wouldn't the agitation of the airstones replenish some of the CO2?

[CThompson]

If there was more CO2 in the air than in the water, wouldn't the agitation of the airstones replenish some of the CO2?

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My understanding is that is doesn’t work that way. Can’t remember the exact wording now, but it amounted to the fact that CO2 is VERY easily dispersed into atmosphere and that is it is hard to keep in the tank.

It is for this reason that I understand that with a full-on planted tank, where plants are the first priority, one tries to maintain horizontal water flow. That means no air stones, HOTB filters are not ideal (return water is directed downwards which will cause water move in a vertical direction in the tank), and if you use canisters, their flow should be directed in a horizontal direction and not to the surface.

The more frequently the bulk of the tank’s water is turned around to come into surface contact, the more CO2 that be doing a runner into the surface atmosphere.

Craig